AUSMIN

Question

Senator PATERSON: To what extent has DFAT been involved in lobbying counterparts in the US system to change their position to give us three in-service Virginia class submarines rather than two in-service and one new? Ms DeZoeten: The lead agency for engagement with the United States on the question around the Optimal Pathway and the acquisition of the submarines is the Australian Submarine Agency. Senator PATERSON: Yes, I understand that, but that wasn't my question. My question was: what involvement has DFAT had, if any, in lobbying the US or facilitating discussions with the US on this? Ms DeZoeten: I would characterise that as being through the ASA-engaging with them as they engage with their counterparts. Senator PATERSON: So DFAT has had no independent engagements with the US system on this? Senator Wong: We speak with one voice, mate. Senator PATERSON: Very good! Minister, have you engaged with your counterpart, Secretary Rubio, on this question? Senator Wong: I'll see whether there's anything I can add to this. I'll ask the officials to look at what we might be able to assist you with there, not on this specific issue but on AUKUS more generally as an aspect of our engagement and relationship. I think that the discussions about the precise capability and the Optimal Pathway have not been occurring in the Foreign minister's channel. Senator PATERSON: What about at AUSMIN? Senator Wong: We'll see what we can provide. Senator PATERSON: But, to your recollection-I mean, you attend AUSMIN. Senator Wong: Do I attend AUSMIN? Senator PATERSON: No, I didn't say that; I said you do attend AUSMIN. I asked- Senator Wong: I do attend AUSMIN. Senator PATERSON: I know. Ms Lawson: Senator, those are day-long discussions. They're quite detailed and involved. We can certainly take on notice whether that subject has come up in AUSMIN discussions. Senator Wong: The challenge is that there are substantial parts of the AUSMIN agenda which are done in a secure and classified environment- Senator PATERSON: I appreciate that. Senator Wong: so I'm not sure what I'm in a position to share. I'm actually trying to be helpful. If we can provide some information on notice about the last AUSMIN, the December discussions, in relation to this, we will, but we'd need to work through that.

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